LTF | Forbidden Artist - Part 2

Emily Herr: 00:00:00

All of these big projects that I kind of get the same response for is like, oh, I could never. And I don't think either of us think that way. Yeah, we think, like, can we do it? And the answer is usually yes.

Moonie Tyler: 00:00:10

Yeah, but that doesn't mean, like, we're just, like, setting sail on this positive boat. And it's all great all the time. Like, I've had a terrible time a lot of this road trip. It's not been easy.

Melissa Allison: 00:00:27

Welcome to Loving the F. I'm Melissa Allison, and this is the podcast that looks at the forbidden and says, why don't you come over to my place? I'll show you my etchings.

I talk to a new guest each week and examine the female finances, friends, family, fitness, and all the other F words. So join me, especially if it's forbidden. This is part two of Emily, her and Moonie Tyler's interview.

We were talking about Moonie's experience becoming an artist because, unlike Emily, she's not formally trained. She was in a foreign land alone and decided to pick up a pencil and paper. It's a fun interview, and thie kind of turn the tables on me later on.

And, oh, I knew it was coming. I hope you enjoy.

Moonie Tyler: 00:01:14

I've taken literally no classes about art, but still, every Saturday and sometimes Sundays, people show up here and think that I'm an artist. And I think so, too. I agree with them. But I have this, like, authority that I guess I've had in other situations, but it's very interesting.

Melissa Allison: 00:01:34

Oh, yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:01:34

How does that feel to have, like, an authority as an artist?

Moonie Tyler: 00:01:37

It feels. It doesn't. I think I've gotten to a place where I don't want it to feel validating if other people think I'm an artist or not.

So it's kind of just like, play art time for me, honestly.

Melissa Allison: 00:01:51

But did you feel like an imposter initially?

Moonie Tyler: 00:01:54

Oh, hell yeah. I struggled with that for quite a while.

And so I was living abroad when I first started drawing, and in a jungle in Taiwan where there's no electricity or, like, things to do. But I had a notebook and some pens because it was a great art store in the small town nearby. And I was driven to start drawing.

And I remember the first time I did it was very scary. It's really hard to even put your finger on why it's scary.

And a lot of what I did at the very beginning was I just found artists that I like, and I just drew what thie had. I just copied their work and put it in my journal. I didn't show anybody because that's a whole different thing that I don't participate in.

But I just like copied all of this work and tried to figure out how thie did it because there was no other way otherwise. When I made marks on the page, thie're fine, but I wanted some skills and I didn't know how to get them otherwise. So I just started drawing there.

And when I moved back, I met Emily pretty quickly. From one of the only friends that kept up with me when I moved abroad via letter.

Emily Herr: 00:03:07

Which marks a quality friend, I think.

Moonie Tyler: 00:03:09

Which marks a quality friend. I don't know if any of my friends from Richmond will listen to this, but if you do, that's how we'll stay friends.

Emily Herr: 00:03:19

Cheat code to stay friends with me.

Moonie Tyler: 00:03:23

But it is scary to start. And I didn't show anybody for a long time. And I did have the advantage, I guess, of my partner at the time being very supportive.

And once I did show him what I was doing, he loved all of it, no matter what. It was the same way Emily and I love any marks any people make on the wall.

He loved all of my marks, and that gave me sort of the validation that I needed to keep going. And then I kind of went on my own from there. I don't think it was totally necessary to have that from him, but it was helpful.

Emily Herr: 00:03:57

Oh, that validation is so kie. Like, that's a huge part of why I continued in art school and everything else.

It's like you get a lot of questions as an artist about, like, why you create stuff, because there's this expectation for it to be, like, coming from your soul or like, you know, releasing some huge emotions that you have pent up or which is totally real. Like that happens and is a reason people create. But it's not a reason that you go to art school.

It's not a reason that you create consistently on a schedule. It's not a reason that you have a career as an artist. And one of the reasons you do do those things is validation. And it's this twisty, scary thing.

Moonie Tyler: 00:04:38

But it's good to know about in the beginning. And I think I recognized kind of early on that I don't want to do it based on that.

So when I came back, I guess I had shared a bit more through social media of my work with just the general public. And when I started making friends, all of my friends ended up being art friends because thie just had similar mindsets.

And it wasn't anything art related between any of us. Like, I Didn't, like, show them a bunch of work, and thie didn't show me a bunch of theirs.

It was just like, we had similar ideas about the world, which translated into being able to work together, which ended up being really cool for a lot of people.

Emily Herr: 00:05:17

And it is nice to share your work with other people. Like, I don't want to. I don't want the impression that, like, we weren't sharing our work with each other.

And I asked earlier, like, what does it feel like to be an authority as an artist? But I see you as an artist. I mean, I think that regardless of whatever your employment status in your world is, like, it doesn't matter.

Like, you create all the time.

Moonie Tyler: 00:05:40

Yeah. And that's a good point. I've never been. Besides, right now, with Emily employed as an artist, I'd love to be one day. I think. I don't.

I don't even know. I don't even care. I'm glad that I have an outlet, and it's really glad.

It's really great that other people can see that outlet as something valid, but I think that even if thie didn't, I would still use it because it feels good to me. So why not?

Melissa Allison: 00:06:03

Feels organic and natural.

Moonie Tyler: 00:06:04

Yeah. I mean, if you. If.

If you were to sit down and, like, make something and try clay and try watercolors and try pens and everything, and you hated it the entire time, you might not want to be a visual artist. Like, that's fine. But it. I do think it is a very good outlet for most people. And you don't have to show anybody your work. You don't want to.

Melissa Allison: 00:06:25

Well, you know, I know for writing, and I'm guessing that it's the same whether it's drawing, painting, you know, just using your hands, that there is this connection that happens that is so important to how we process things. And I wish I could remember the study and the research to support it. I'll look for it, and I will share it on the post on the podcast.

But it's so important for us to use our hands, and we kind of shortcut ourselves when we use technology for everything. You know, it's a wonderful tool, but I think that it's so important.

Important that we don't lose that tactile connection with the medium, whatever it is. And sometimes that medium is the computer. You know, it's just. That's the way it is.

Emily Herr: 00:07:15

That's one of the great parts about seeing people come out and paint is like, for us, when we're, you know, drawing pretty Consistently painting pretty consistently for ourselves or for projects or whatever. But people that aren't doing that coming out and throwing paint on a wall is a release. It is like. It is by virtue of it being a rare thing. Yeah.

Cathartic, exciting, playful, and it's fun. And you can tell that it's fun.

Melissa Allison: 00:07:44

You know, I'm torn because. Okay, so when you were talking. We're just gonna go off on a tangent just for a while.

Okay, so when you were talking, you made the comment to Moonie that you see her as an artist. You know, she didn't. And it brought to my mind that sometimes people see things in us that we don't see in ourself.

But the other side of that evil coin is that sometimes people don't see in us what we see in ourselves. And how do you define. How do you determine? You know, it's like, follow your gut is my thing is like. Because that's all we've got, really.

And I would like to make choices based on. But sometimes. How do we know when. When people are looking in, does it speak to our soul? Is it. How do we know if that's truth?

When somebody says, oh, I totally see you as a, B, and C or whatever.

Emily Herr: 00:08:42

Well, I think you touched on this already a little bit, where you said that you're trying to not associate people's opinions with your. With your opinion of yourself. Like, you know, people considering you as an authority.

Melissa Allison: 00:08:52

But. Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:08:52

Versus, like, well, it's just fun. Like, I don't care whether you. Whether you see me this way or not.

Moonie Tyler: 00:08:57

Yeah. Nobody in my family thinks I'm an artist, and my family is at least.

Melissa Allison: 00:09:01

60 people, and so a small community.

Moonie Tyler: 00:09:07

Yeah. Well, okay. I can't say thie don't see me as an artist. I can tell that thie don't see me as the artist that I know I am.

Many of my family members have referred to my art as doodles, and not in a way that I think that thie're trying to be malicious or say that, like, your art is not valid.

Emily Herr: 00:09:27

How your doodles go. You're doing. Working on your doodles.

Moonie Tyler: 00:09:30

Oh, I love you Seeing your doodles on your Instagram. It's like, thank you. Thank you. Because thie're not trying to be that way.

So I think part of it is, like, thinking about where that person is coming from. There are no visual artists in my family.

Melissa Allison: 00:09:43

Thie're all sports, so thie're just totally disconnected from it.

Moonie Tyler: 00:09:47

Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:09:47

But it's not that. I think it's. Sorry to interrupt I don't think it's that your art is equivalent to doodles to them.

It's that thie don't have that vocabulary, that experience to.

Moonie Tyler: 00:09:59

Thie don't have any perspective. And I think that is one of the biggest strategies that I employ is thinking about where this person is coming from.

Because if this person has no connection to the art world in the same way that I do, then I'm not going to take their opinion to heart, because why would I?

Emily Herr: 00:10:17

Oh, that's a great point.

Moonie Tyler: 00:10:18

Yeah. And if.

And if it is somebody that is like an art professor and thie come into a place where I am, like, working on something or I don't know how this starts. This has never happened to me, but I'm just thinking about it. Thie have a different perspective, too. Thie have a different toolbox.

Thie have different training and different ideas about what art should be. And I just like. I think that making the big decision to not care about certain people's opinions is really, really hard.

And I don't want to say that I've done it, because I haven't, but I try hard to do it on a daily basis because it just doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. Thie're not the one in my body doing the things that I do every day.

Emily Herr: 00:11:02

Thie're not the reason you're doing it either.

Moonie Tyler: 00:11:03

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:11:04

And being connected to the reason you do it makes. Makes them, as a reason, irrelevant.

Moonie Tyler: 00:11:10

Yeah.

And if thie can't see that connection and, and instead of maybe critique something, if, if, if their first thought is to go towards a negative, then I just kind of like completely shut off to what thie're going to say. Because I learned quite a while ago that, like, I don't want any of those people in my life. It takes me nowhere, and it takes them nowhere.

And I just, like, it doesn't matter. It just doesn't.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:37

So what advice do you have for people who think thie're not artists? That it's forbidden, that it's something that thie can't do, that it's. For everybody else, it's wonderful and thie will cheer you on. What do you say?

Like, what are the benefits? And how do you encourage. What are you inspired to share right now to those people listening?

Moonie Tyler: 00:11:56

I'd say to think about first. Why do you. Why do you think that it matters if your art is considered art to anybody else?

I think there's a lot of, like, core issues with self esteem and validation that go way deeper than, like, what you make on paper or with clay or whatever. You choose your medium to be.

Emily Herr: 00:12:16

Yeah, like, what's stopping you worried about. Think about what's stopping you.

Moonie Tyler: 00:12:19

Are you worried about your partner, your family, your community judging you? Because that is a different issue and that probably impacts a lot of your life.

Emily Herr: 00:12:33

Yeah.

I think this speaks a little bit to the fear of the blank canvas, the fear of the blank page, and the fear of not being able to do the thing that you think you should be able touches on the imposter syndrome where you think that, you know, there's this whole crowd of artists and you're gonna like trundle in there and you're two feet shorter than everybody else and you're holding your pocket full of crayons and you don't. Nothing you make is gonna be real art. But that's, that's not true.

Moonie Tyler: 00:13:09

Emily, tell us what you said about starting where you left off.

Emily Herr: 00:13:12

Well, starting where you left off is, you know, looking at the tools that you have and acknowledging like.

Moonie Tyler: 00:13:22

You have.

Emily Herr: 00:13:22

A gap between your taste and your skill level where the things that you want to make or the things that you think you should be able to make aren't necessarily the things you know how to make yet. And so you have learning to do. You have to start where you left off.

You have to take the knowledge and the viewpoint and the skills that you do have and work your way towards what you want to make. But along the way, recognize that. Recognize that what you're making isn't wrong or bad or inherently flawed.

There isn't a magical talent fairy that's going to come and tap you on the head and give you the talent of being an artist. It's actual work that you have to put in.

Moonie Tyler: 00:14:12

So if you pick up a marker as a 29 year old then, and you put it on the paper in, the last time that you drew anything or made anything without thought or without worry was when you were seven. Then you're starting as a seven year old again. And that's just your starting point. It's fine.

Melissa Allison: 00:14:36

Did you see, did you see the movie Bug's Life? Oh, yeah, the animated film. And do you remember the little girl Dot? Well, the little bug Dot.

You know, she, at toward the end of the movie, she hands, she picks up a rock or a pebble. A rock.

And I don't remember the name of the other character's name, but she gives it back to him because he's, he's this inventor, you know, all this stuff. And he gets discouraged or was it flickering flick sounds?

Moonie Tyler: 00:15:07

Right.

Melissa Allison: 00:15:08

And she gives it to flick. And she's like, pretend it's a rock because. Or not pretend it's a rock, pretend it's a seed.

Because within that seed is potential and the promise of something that is so beautiful.

And so when I think about your mural and the people who are afraid to touch the wall, the blank canvas or whatever, it's like just as simple as putting a little dot or a seed on that and then seeing how people contribute to it, you know, I think is so beautiful. The process is so beautiful.

And I think if we put our armor down and the fear of what people think that you mentioned, Moonie, I think that this wonderful dance of energy just happens. And I know I'm being a little bit.

Moonie Tyler: 00:15:50

No, that's perfect.

Melissa Allison: 00:15:52

It's like it evolves into this beautiful orchestration of what we call art. And you're the conductors.

Moonie Tyler: 00:16:00

It's joyous for us to watch.

Emily Herr: 00:16:01

Yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:16:02

This is like, otherwise it's just us with our headphones on, like painting all day. I mean, and not just because of that, like, day difference contrast, but it's really, really fun to watch people's shells fall away.

Emily Herr: 00:16:16

And also the collaboration, like you're saying, it is a dance, it's a push and a pull and this, like, rhythm that people get into. And it is a different opportunity than you might have sitting at your desk alone or somewhere outside or whatever.

Interacting with people in a visual, colorful way is. Is a rare treat that, you know, even, even professional artists don't get all the time. You know, it's. It takes effort to set up a collaboration.

And when you paint something, then you see somebody else build on it or change it or cover it up or whatever. It puts a whole new context on that thing that you made. I think it also re.

Reorients kind of like when you make a mark or when you make an image, you have an expectation of what you're going to make and you have an expectation of how it's going to be perceived. But that's not. It is perceived. It's not always how it turns out.

And this is kind of a real time answer of like, you make a mark and somebody else sees it and reacts to it. And thie might.

Moonie Tyler: 00:17:20

And you were like, those were Cheerios, not tunnels. But then you're like, that does look cool.

Emily Herr: 00:17:26

Yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:17:28

Or not.

Emily Herr: 00:17:28

And then it becomes a battle and you have to fight them and you have to paint over their thing. No, that doesn't really happen.

Moonie Tyler: 00:17:33

No, not really. People are very nice there.

Melissa Allison: 00:17:37

That's really cool.

I think that is really Cool to just be able to be so influential with so many people in a field that is healing and cathartic and useful on so many different levels. I mean, it beautifies the community. It's cathartic for people. It helps people heal emotionally and physically in different, different ways.

So I have a question to ask you. Is there first, before I ask you my question, was there anything else you wanted to add?

Moonie Tyler: 00:18:16

I think that what I actually said at the last. At the kind of the end of the last podcast was what I keep repeating to myself is that we don't have any secrets.

A lot of people think that artists have secrets. And I remember we were on the wall and there was a woman painting something. She was not very confident.

So I went over there and I was like, I'm gonna paint a bridge. And then as I was doing it, I was like, this doesn't look like a bridge at all.

And then I told her, I was like, a lot of people don't know this about artists, but, like, we don't. I can't just paint things from memory. Like, I have no idea what a bridge looks like.

It kind of looks like this, but a lot of times we just have to look at pictures. Like, we don't have secrets.

Emily Herr: 00:18:54

And then maybe once you've drawn a lot of bridges, you can do it again because you've done it a bunch of times.

Moonie Tyler: 00:18:59

Right. And so I think that one of my biggest points is that for most people in most professions, we don't have a lot of secrets.

We just have strategies of how to get there, and we have different toolboxes that we carry. I like that. It's all about metaphors.

Melissa Allison: 00:19:15

Speaking about toolboxes you carry, tell me about your backpack.

Emily Herr: 00:19:19

Oh, man.

Moonie Tyler: 00:19:20

Bumble Pack?

Emily Herr: 00:19:20

Yeah. Bumble Pack is my backpack. It is a child's, basically, lunchbox, essentially. No, it's a book bag. And it goes everywhere I go.

Moonie Tyler: 00:19:34

It looks like a happy bumblebee. There are. There's a face on the front, small little wings or ears on the side.

Emily Herr: 00:19:41

Thie're definitely wings. It has stripes on the belly. It has very short straps that I have to lengthen out the entire way so that it fits on my body. She has two, and I have.

That's very secret not to be shared.

Moonie Tyler: 00:19:56

She has two, and one of them looks nicer than the other.

Emily Herr: 00:20:00

Bumble Pack is a solitary being.

Moonie Tyler: 00:20:03

One of them does not come to meetings with important business people, and the other does.

Emily Herr: 00:20:08

Sometimes it takes a shower and it looks better than other times, and it.

Moonie Tyler: 00:20:11

Doesn'T look like sometimes it has vulgar things written on it by other people.

Melissa Allison: 00:20:15

Oh, my gosh.

Emily Herr: 00:20:16

If you would like to follow Bumble Pack, you'll have to make a request on Instagram because it's private. You have to be either really cute boy or I have to know you.

Moonie Tyler: 00:20:27

But Bumble Pet goes on a lot of adventures and you can see what it's up to.

Emily Herr: 00:20:32

Oh, more importantly, toolbox wise, it carries a lot of art supplies. I carry a sketchbook most of the time. I also carry a notebook because those two things are different. And a whole lot of marking supplies.

I have a big paint mark, big fat, like 1 inch paint marker, a whole bunch of different kinds of pens, pencils, an X acto knife, some collapsible scissors.

Moonie Tyler: 00:20:55

And last year, for Christmas or your birthday, her mom got her a plate that looked just like Bumble Pack.

Emily Herr: 00:21:01

Oh, yeah, very important.

Moonie Tyler: 00:21:02

But the different sections. One was the face and one was the belly, and it was for children to eat off of.

Emily Herr: 00:21:06

And that one I had Emily's to eat off of. Also, that one I carry food on.

Melissa Allison: 00:21:14

You guys are killing me. Oh, my gosh. I did not expect that, but I.

Moonie Tyler: 00:21:20

You asked.

Melissa Allison: 00:21:21

I am so glad I asked. That is so cool. We're taking a picture of Bumble Pack. Yeah, definitely. Oh, my gosh. You guys are delightful. I want to move with you.

Even though I am not a heat person. I want to share your adventure, Moonie.

Emily Herr: 00:21:38

Well, you can always come to Richmond. It's not quite as hot there, but it is wet.

Moonie Tyler: 00:21:41

It's wet.

Melissa Allison: 00:21:42

I like wet.

Moonie Tyler: 00:21:43

Oh, so humid place for you.

Emily Herr: 00:21:45

Four seasons and a lot of humidity. We got it all.

Melissa Allison: 00:21:48

Yeah. I used to live in Houston and it's so humiliated. I miss it. It's like I turned into a raisin.

When I came out here, I thought, oh, great, my hair won't frizz up because it's curly, but.

Moonie Tyler: 00:21:58

Oh, I miss how big my hair was in the humidity. Yeah, yeah. I like it better that way too.

Melissa Allison: 00:22:03

Yeah. But anyway. Well, okay, so here's my question.

Moonie Tyler: 00:22:08

Yes.

Melissa Allison: 00:22:12

Get back into the space. Okay. So this is all about redefining the forbidden. So what in your life did you used to perceive as forbidden but now you enjoy freely?

Moonie Tyler: 00:22:29

Yeah, we both had a hard time answering this before.

Melissa Allison: 00:22:32

Yeah. I thought you have had practice.

Emily Herr: 00:22:34

Yeah, I wouldn't say that. My answer. I'm gonna stick with my answer that I came up before, but I wouldn't say that I enjoy it necessarily now I've found the value in it.

So, like, what I perceive as forbidden That I now find the value in is failure.

And failure, the act of failing, of not accomplishing a goal, of coming up short on something that I expected myself to do or that I thought somebody else expected me to be able to do, was absolutely not an option for most of my life. And at this point, I have, I think, simply lived long enough that I've failed a significant number of times. And obviously it happens.

But accepting it as part. As a necessity, accepting it as something that is going to happen, has changed how I work in a huge way. I'm not working out of fear most of the time.

And that was my motivator. I told people for a long time, as a straight A student, as.

As somebody that was always exceeding expectations, I would have, like, friends that would kind of, like, angrily ask me, like, how do you even do this?

Moonie Tyler: 00:23:51

Like, what do you.

Emily Herr: 00:23:52

How do you do this? I would, like, super cheerfully, like, two thumbs up, be like, fear. Just be super afraid of not getting an A all the time.

And ultimately, that doesn't really last. It doesn't work out. It just causes anxiety and stress and sleeplessness. And there's a lot to be learned from failure, actually.

Melissa Allison: 00:24:12

There's. Yeah. I mean, winning is easy, but only the really strong.

Emily Herr: 00:24:17

The aftermath of winning is easy.

Melissa Allison: 00:24:20

Yes. Yes. Yeah. But I think, you know.

Emily Herr: 00:24:24

Yeah, failure.

Melissa Allison: 00:24:25

Yeah, you're right. What about you, Moonie?

Moonie Tyler: 00:24:27

Yeah. I don't remember what my answer was last time because I think wavered on it a few times. But I think that the.

In a similar way of fear being a factor, not taking the chance, like, so you have a lot of options in life. Most of us could go a lot of different directions.

Even if we feel like we're confined to our communities and our spaces and our times and our monie, the idea of, like, going really far and doing something crazy felt forbidden for me for a long time. Like, growing up in a very strange household felt very far away. And like, it was not for me.

Like, I was gonna go to college and, like, live in my community and maybe probably live in a trailer, which is fine for a lot of people, but for me, that wasn't the lifestyle I wanted. And it felt very scary and forbidden to take a chance because this is, like, nobody in my family has done anything like this.

In my immediate family, I think I'm the only one that's gone to college. And then in my extended family, there's not a lot of travelers, there's not a lot of artists.

And so it felt forbidden to be the person that is not a Sports, like, person that works at Capital One, that has a good income and a suburban house. And I think the fear of not taking those chances has what's driven me to be a more interesting person that's had more experiences in life.

And I think that I've been able to connect to more people because of it. And it's also changed my personality a lot. Like, I really like rules and order, and I like knowing what's happening.

And I am trying so hard to let go of all of that. And that feels forbidden, too. Like, to be more whimsical and to go with the flow.

Emily Herr: 00:26:13

But I think that's true for both of us. I think we're both pretty naturally.

Like, we want everything to be in control and in order, and preferably, we are somewhere near the center of that control.

Moonie Tyler: 00:26:26

Yeah. Mine comes from a different. So we've talked about this. Of where our. Where our fear comes from, because we both do have this fear in the same way.

And mine comes directly from my mother of being scared of her and scared of not doing the right thing to appease her, because otherwise I'm in trouble. And Emily's mother is very different from mine and has, like, led her in a very different direction.

But we both have, like, centered around this fear of not being.

Emily Herr: 00:26:50

Comes from the same place, though.

Melissa Allison: 00:26:51

Good enough.

Moonie Tyler: 00:26:52

It definitely does. And that was really interesting to figure out because it's driven both of us to similar places.

So you don't have to start with all the same tools in your toolbox. Yeah, you can get to wherever you want.

Emily Herr: 00:27:06

Also, I think kind of a mutual third answer, maybe for this question would be that where we started before a little bit was, like, the thing that we consider forbidden. Both of us last time had to take a really long time to think about what was forbidden to us.

Both of us kind of have a different maybe idea of how to approach the forbidden than other people. I'm not sure if this is landing quite right, but, like, everything is. Everything is open to possibility.

Moonie Tyler: 00:27:36

I don't really feel. I feel like being a millionaire is forbidden, but I'm not worried about that.

Like, yeah, like, I'd love it, but I don't think that's gonna happen for me, you know? Like, I don't really feel like there's a whole lot of things that if I really want to do them, I can't do.

I'm not gonna try to do anything that's completely out of my reach. I think we're both just really realistic about where our lives are going to Go. But also hopeful.

Emily Herr: 00:27:58

Yeah. Realistic. And hopeful. Like, it's realistic in the sense that, like, yeah, we're not going to do things that are. That are going to kill us.

You know, that's going to, like, drive us into huge stress or debt or pain or whatever, but we're also not going to avoid things that kind of hard. That are kind of hard or that. Like this. This idea of other people being like, oh, I could never move really far away like you're doing, or.

I've done a lot of things. I've started my own business. I've. I've converted a whole step van into a studio.

Like, all of these big projects that I kind of get the same response for is like, oh, I could never. And I don't think either of us think that way.

Moonie Tyler: 00:28:40

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:28:40

I think, can we do it? And the answer is usually yes.

Moonie Tyler: 00:28:43

Yeah. But that doesn't mean, like, we're just, like, setting sail on this positive boat. And it's all great all the time.

Melissa Allison: 00:28:49

Like, I have.

Moonie Tyler: 00:28:50

I've had a terrible time, a lot of this road trip. It's not been easy. And I have not been able to put my finger on what the problem is for me.

And I don't know what it is, but I still know I'm going in the right direction and I'm not gonna go back home. Like, that's not my goal.

Melissa Allison: 00:29:06

I think it's the shedding of the old.

Moonie Tyler: 00:29:08

Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:29:08

The ideology of releasing the expectations, because you are going against so much of all the expectations you listed. And it's also that fear. It's like that of one foot in front of the other. And, like, it's like that.

That dance we talked about, the push and the pull, you know, especially with an adventure, like, what you're going on, that's. That's.

Moonie Tyler: 00:29:34

It just feels like the alternative is not an option.

Melissa Allison: 00:29:37

Yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:29:37

In a lot of ways. Like, the alternative of not building a studio van, of going back home, of. Thie're not.

It's not an option because that is not a place I want to live in. It's not a place I want to be.

Emily Herr: 00:29:50

I told. Okay, so I want to elaborate on the studio slightly more because of what I'm going to say next. The.

I have a step van that has a mural studio inside of. I work inside of it. I converted it from an empty shell into a whole room. It has solar panels. It has taken me on a huge road trip.

I work out of it all the time. So I did this all with the help of friends and by Myself and learning a whole bunch.

And during the process of building this, I was talking to a good friend about how, like, I don't think I'm really much of a romantic. I think I'm a pretty realist person. And he was shocked by that. He was like, you're not a romantic.

I can't think of anything of a more romantic ideal than building a studio inside of a truck that you're going to travel across the country and paint murals. That's the most romantic ideal I've ever heard. And to me, it didn't sound that ridiculous. It just sounded like the next logical process.

Moonie Tyler: 00:30:49

It's just the next step.

Emily Herr: 00:30:50

It's just the next step. It's like, well, I want to travel and I want to paint, and how do I do those things? I put them both together, and I get a traveling studio.

That's the answer. It is that putting one foot in front of the other.

I think when I can see the next, like, five steps in something, I don't need to see the next hundred, But I believe that thie're gonna come. Like, I don't. I. I need to know the next five. But that's good. That's enough.

Moonie Tyler: 00:31:19

Or also, if you know that the result is a van that will. Or truck that will take you to places that you can achieve even more of your goals, you don't need to know any of the steps to start there.

Like, you didn't know anything about solar panels and cabinets. And, like, I don't even know all the things that went into this truck.

Melissa Allison: 00:31:39

Yeah, there's a lot of things I can't remember if it's a quote or a saying or whatever, but I don't remember it exactly.

But what it does say is that you can drive across the United States as you guys have, but not in one night, only seeing the first hundred yards in front of you, you can get across. You know, you don't have to see all of the United States to get across it.

And I think it's goes back to just that one foot in front of another, keeping. Oh, and I heard this other thing that your body goes where your iees go. The thing that you focus on is.

Emily Herr: 00:32:15

Yes. I love this.

Melissa Allison: 00:32:17

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:32:18

Yes. You look up, you go up. That's like an actual acrobatic thing that, like, if you want to balance on something. Yeah. You. If you look up, you go up.

Your body follows your iees.

Moonie Tyler: 00:32:29

If you want to put the soccer ball in the goal, you look at the goal and not your. Your foot.

Emily Herr: 00:32:33

Yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:32:34

The soccer is the only sport I've ever played.

Melissa Allison: 00:32:37

But, yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:32:38

Yeah, it's very true. Yeah, we didn't have to stop to see whatever the thing was in Texas, but I'm very glad we did because we got. There's signs. Was it Texas?

Emily Herr: 00:32:50

Yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:32:50

There's many billboards. It doesn't matter what state it was in. It has a lot of billboards, like 300 and some. And thie all say, the thing coming up in this many miles.

And it was later. We didn't, like, really have time to stop, but we also did not have time to stop because no one's telling us what to do. So we stopped.

We get in there, like, six minutes before it closes. And we were like, do we have six minutes for the museum, or do we just have to get in there before then? And she was like, you're good.

So we went in there, we saw the whole thing.

We ended up talking to the janitor at the end and having a really cool conversation about how this whole museum had changed in the past week because of, like, some. Some executive son had done these things.

Emily Herr: 00:33:33

And thie'd rebuilt it from, like, this kitschy, weird, oddball collection, sideshow freak thing into, like, a museum.

Melissa Allison: 00:33:41

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:33:42

Which was wild. And we were there on its, like, third day of being open, maybe second day of being open. And he was.

He was there as somebody that had, like, witnessed this change and was looking at us like, well, what do you think? And we were like, you're the. What does the public think?

Moonie Tyler: 00:33:58

And then we saw the thing at the end, which I will not give away, because you should see it on your own. But we got to hear what he thought about it. And anyways, the whole point of all of this is, like, we didn't, like, it was kind of too dark to stop.

I didn't really want to get into a new city in the dark because it stresses me out when I'm driving, but I'm so glad that we did because we made this, like, tiny little human connection. And the alternative was to go into our Airbnb and go to sleep. And that's not an alternative.

Emily Herr: 00:34:28

Yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:34:28

For us.

Emily Herr: 00:34:30

All of us. To all of us. All two of us, make a lot of us. We try to have our logistical bases covered. And, you know, we want to get to a place at a certain time.

We want to know where we're going to sleep. We want to know, like, we want to be sure that we're going to be able to figure out where to.

Moonie Tyler: 00:34:49

Eat at least 24 hours at a time. 12.

Emily Herr: 00:34:52

Like, we want all these things, and those are all the boxes to be checked. But there's always, like, the biggest box to check at the top is like, what are you doing in the space in between? Like.

Moonie Tyler: 00:35:03

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:35:03

What adventures are you having?

Moonie Tyler: 00:35:04

Are you going out to sleep and eat?

Emily Herr: 00:35:06

Yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:35:06

Are you going out to do something weird? Yeah, always something weird.

Melissa Allison: 00:35:10

So what's your next adventure?

Emily Herr: 00:35:12

This is a big one. It's hard to think around this one.

Moonie Tyler: 00:35:16

My next adventure is definitely Southwest. Just in general. I got. Since we visited two national parks, it was only $10 more to get the pass. So I plan on spending a lot of time in the parks.

Being from Virginia, I've been to a lot of other countries, but I've not seen a lot of America.

And seeing these national parks, especially the Grand Canyon, it was just like, wow, this has been here the whole time, the whole time I've been alive. And that is very humbling and inspiring. So I definitely want to try to chase that feeling a little bit longer. And I think I'll be able to out here.

Everybody seems to think so anyways, which I'm very excited about.

Melissa Allison: 00:35:58

Nice.

Moonie Tyler: 00:35:59

What about you, Emily?

Emily Herr: 00:36:00

I have more murals to paint.

Moonie Tyler: 00:36:02

I hope Emily is booked up. She's working on other projects here too. Like in our spare time. Like, she doesn't stop, which I don't do.

I very much enjoy separating work and leisure time.

Emily Herr: 00:36:16

I've never learned how to do that. I'll figure out one day, but I haven't figured it out yet. After.

After we finish this tonight, I'm gonna go back and finish some lettering on the wall. And then when we get home.

Well, I'm sure you're going home before that, but when I get home, I'm gonna do some pencil drawings for a mural that I have to start when I get back to Virginia and then in sometime in the next week.

Moonie Tyler: 00:36:38

Ish.

Emily Herr: 00:36:39

You know, I have to figure out exactly which dates. All my other murals are starting in October, November, December. Once that's taken care of, I have a calendar to start to distribute to people.

Moonie Tyler: 00:36:51

Personal project Illustrated calendar.

Melissa Allison: 00:36:54

Oh, wow.

Moonie Tyler: 00:36:54

She does every year. And you'll probably have a trip coming up.

Emily Herr: 00:36:59

Oh, yeah, she's pretty good. I'm probably coming back to Las Vegas for Christmas, so see you probably. And I want to go to Berlin next year. We'll see.

Moonie Tyler: 00:37:13

We very much take us where the cheap flights go.

Melissa Allison: 00:37:15

Oh, nice. Yeah, nice.

Emily Herr: 00:37:17

Absolutely.

Moonie Tyler: 00:37:17

I went to Columbia in the spring, which was still cold in Virginia, for like $250 round trip.

Melissa Allison: 00:37:23

Well, you're going to have to listen to one of my future podcasts. I'm interviewing Bill Weitrack. He is the Traveling Wizard.

I've known him since I was in my early 20s, and he was, for a short time, like a brother to me.

But he would get a job from the time he left high school, graduated high school, he would get a job, save up his monie, get his backpack, go to all these different foreign countries. So he's like my. He's a little bit older than me. He has been everywhere. I think there's only a handful of countries that he hasn't been to.

And he has a blog called the Traveling Wizard. And he actually makes his living now and he gives tips. He says you could travel anywhere for practically nothing.

Moonie Tyler: 00:38:04

Yeah, I am that person to my friend. So I'm definitely going to listen to this and hear if he has any tips that I can take advantage of.

Melissa Allison: 00:38:13

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:38:14

Can I ask you about one of your previous guests that you mentioned earlier?

Melissa Allison: 00:38:17

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:38:18

Is her name Dr. Jekyll and Hyde? Because that is what it sounded like, and that's a great name.

Melissa Allison: 00:38:24

It's Jacqueline Hyde. And I thought Jekyll and Hyde, too. Yeah, Jacqueline Hyde. No, but she's. She is. Oh, my gosh. I love her. She. We actually have the same birthday.

We both have five kids. The. Our lives are so parallel, it is not even funny. We both have children with the same names. We have relatives with the same names. We both.

I mean, you break it down and it's like, crazy, but yeah, Jekyll and Hyde.

Moonie Tyler: 00:38:53

I also would like to know what the same answer to your question is.

Emily Herr: 00:38:58

What did you think was forbidden?

Moonie Tyler: 00:38:59

I know you're gonna ask us. We're gonna ask you. What did you think that was forbidden before that you don't now?

And is there anything forbidden that you want to not be forbidden.

Melissa Allison: 00:39:12

Sex?

Moonie Tyler: 00:39:13

Oh, yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:39:14

Yeah. Because I was a good morning. Well, I was a single mom at 20, unmarried, so I wasn't that good. But I always felt guilty about it.

And I left the church and everything, and. And now it's like, I regret. I think about.

Moonie Tyler: 00:39:33

You think about all the sex you didn't have. Yes. Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:39:36

I think about all the guys I said no to. And it's like, oh, there's this one guy named Khaled. Oh, my God, he was gorgeous.

Emily Herr: 00:39:42

Shout out to Khaled.

Melissa Allison: 00:39:43

Hie, Khalid. I know if you're out there, we miss you, miss Melissa. But yeah, so that was forbidden. And it's really, you know, that's another conversation.

But so that was forbidden for Me. And now if I'm in a relationship, if there's somebody that I care about, you know, then, yeah, it's not at all. I have my standards, but I'm. I'm.

This Too much information. It's not.

Emily Herr: 00:40:12

But it's not forbidden, this. If you can't talk about it here.

Melissa Allison: 00:40:16

Oh, right.

Emily Herr: 00:40:17

It needs to become a place that you can talk about anything.

Melissa Allison: 00:40:19

Right, Right. It's a safe space. But no. So that was the forbidden thing for me. And what was your other question?

Moonie Tyler: 00:40:26

Is there anything you feel forbidden is now that you would like to.

Melissa Allison: 00:40:29

Oh, to change? Yeah. Yeah. I think that just diving in and embracing exactly who I am has been forbidden. And I'm not gonna cry. How dare you make me cry.

Moonie Tyler: 00:40:47

Oh, I'll cry too, right now. You want me to?

Melissa Allison: 00:40:49

Okay.

Emily Herr: 00:40:50

You come into my home.

Melissa Allison: 00:40:51

The thing is, is that to be yourself, to accept yourself, it's like the scariest thing. It's standing naked, and you want people to accept you. I mean, it goes to this art, right?

And it's the reason why I'm doing the podcast, the way I am, unedited and raw, because it's my way of accepting myself. And it's just this natural evolution, you know? And so my Instagram, my posts and everything, it's not refined, it's not polished, but it is real.

It's the authentic experience.

Moonie Tyler: 00:41:24

You're standing here naked.

Melissa Allison: 00:41:26

Exactly.

Moonie Tyler: 00:41:26

We all are. Oh, that's really great.

Melissa Allison: 00:41:31

Thank you for asking that.

Moonie Tyler: 00:41:32

Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:41:33

Thank you so much for doing this. I hope we stay in touch. Yeah, please. I am following Bumble Pack. You better accept my invitation or my request. Very discerning.

That was Emily Herr and Moonie Tyler, mural artist from Virginia. Traveling gypsies just making their mark everywhere that thie go. And I'm so glad that I got this opportunity to talk with them.

Thie were a lot of fun. And if you like this episode, please go to itunes and rate us. It would be such a big help to get this podcast out there to more people.

And Sweden, I saw you downloaded another episode. Thanks for listening, everyone. You've been listening to Loving the F. I'm Alyssa Allison, and I hope you'll join me again next week.