LTF | Forbidden Artist - Part 1

Emily Herr: 00:00:00

The assumption that you need to have all these really specific technical skills and techniques down before what you make as an artist is valid is a dangerous thought process.

Melissa Allison: 00:00:16

Welcome to Loving the F. I'm Melissa Allison, and this is the podcast that looks at the forbidden and says, I hate to see you go, but I love to watch you leave.

I talk to a new guest each week and examine the female finances, friends, family, fitness, and all the other F words. So join me, especially if it's forbidden. In this episode, I talk with Emily Herr and Mooney Tyler, who are from Virginia. They're artists.

They're muralists. One is formally trained and the other one is self taught. And this is the first two part episode that I'm doing.

We had such a good time talking, we could not stop. So I hope you enjoy this first part. The second second part will air in one week on Sunday.

I hope you enjoy because I have in the studio not once, but for the second time. Does that make sense? Not once, but for the second time. I have Emily her and I did it.

I have Emily Herr and Moonie Tyler, and they are amazing artists who are working on the mural here in Park City at the China Bridge. And they agreed to be on my podcast to talk about art and how people think it's forbidden. I'm a little bit animated because I'm a little bit.

Yeah, so. But welcome.

Moonie Tyler: 00:01:41

Hi.

Emily Herr: 00:01:41

Hi, y'all. We're happy to be here.

Melissa Allison: 00:01:43

Yeah. I just can't thank you enough. Just full disclosure, everyone, we already did this once.

Emily Herr: 00:01:50

Oh, yeah, we're happy to be here again.

Melissa Allison: 00:01:51

Yeah. It was so much fun.

Moonie Tyler: 00:01:52

We can talk about this all day long. But we did talk about this once.

Melissa Allison: 00:01:55

Yes. We're like 45 minutes before we got the blue screen of death on the computer. And, you know, lesson learned from me.

Well, I don't even know if I had saved the file first if it would still be there.

Emily Herr: 00:02:09

Was done practice round.

Melissa Allison: 00:02:11

Yeah. I think the gods are saying do over for whatever reason.

Moonie Tyler: 00:02:15

This time, maybe we'll come up with a revelation.

Emily Herr: 00:02:18

We'll get to a deeper place than we got to before.

Moonie Tyler: 00:02:20

Oh, yeah, I brought my shovel.

Melissa Allison: 00:02:22

It was pretty deep. So you're originally, well, you are from Virginia. You're visiting here for this mural.

And so, Emily, tell us a little bit about how you got to this space and why you even wanted to do this.

Emily Herr: 00:02:35

Oh, man.

Well, the technical answer is my friend Bridget Meinhold, who's an artist local to the area, sent me a RFP from the city, which is a request for proposals. Knowing that I'm a mural artist, knowing that I like to travel and knowing that I might have a shot at getting a big arts contract with the city.

And I submitted a proposal for these four murals in China Bridge.

And after a whole bunch of phone calls and many months, many months of logistics and arranging, they accepted my proposal, and I got the contract, and we drove out here from Virginia, and now we're painting four walls in the China Bridge parking garage. So that's the. That's how. How I'm here, why I wanted to do this so much.

I like I said I'm a muralist, and I love to travel, and this was just a great opportunity to paint something really cool. This is a new process for me. The process that we're using to paint these murals is extra community engaging.

Melissa Allison: 00:03:45

So do you have a name for this process yet?

Emily Herr: 00:03:48

Ooh, no. No, I don't. I don't even know if it is something that exists already, which I don't know either.

Melissa Allison: 00:03:59

I think you should have it.

Emily Herr: 00:04:00

Seen it before. Yeah, it's.

So just to describe it very briefly, the first layer of paint on the wall is just like a huge people explosion where we invite everybody to come paint whatever they want with a controlled palette, with a very limited color palette, so that whatever they put up there still looks good. It's actually from this experience that I had when I was really young, when my music teacher in elementary school.

We had different sessions of different kinds of music and singing and different instruments and this stuff.

And one of the things that we did was play with xylophones, and she had taken all of our toy xylophone sets that the school had provided and taken off all of the keys that weren't within a certain chord. I suppose. I don't really know. I did not learn about music theory from this lesson, but what I learned was that anything I played sounded really good.

And it was really. It was great. It was a really cool experience to.

Moonie Tyler: 00:05:05

Be like, she made you into a musician you didn't even know.

Emily Herr: 00:05:08

Yeah, exactly.

Moonie Tyler: 00:05:09

Yeah. That's what you're doing too.

Emily Herr: 00:05:10

And so that's what I'm doing here. Hopefully, with anybody that comes up, they don't have to have particular artistic skills per se.

They can paint whatever they want, and it'll look good. So anyway, so that's the first layer.

The second layer, we come in, and I'm drawing silhouettes of wildflowers over the whole thing and kind of sculpting that first base layer into this field of.

Melissa Allison: 00:05:36

Wildflowers that are all native to this community.

Emily Herr: 00:05:41

Yeah. Local species.

Melissa Allison: 00:05:42

Yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:05:43

And the colors are from the flowers. Native to Utah as well.

Melissa Allison: 00:05:46

And what's really cool is that each mural has a theme and a season.

Emily Herr: 00:05:51

Yes.

Moonie Tyler: 00:05:52

Yeah, it's working out that way.

Melissa Allison: 00:05:54

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:05:54

We've got winter sports, we've got history, the town history. We've got arts and culture, and we've got the natural environment, open spaces, landscape.

Melissa Allison: 00:06:04

So, Mooney, how did you happen to be assisting Emily in this event? Yeah, or project.

Moonie Tyler: 00:06:12

Emily and I met a few years ago at a girls game night, like board games, through a mutual friend, and we just continued to hang out from there, and she knew that I was interested in art, so she invited me to do a few different projects with her. After we got to know each other a little better, and we've worked together a few times. I've mostly just assisted her on projects, which has been fun.

I've learned a lot, and it's always been interesting. And so this project, I had been thinking about moving away from Richmond for a little while, and this was a.

Emily Herr: 00:06:48

Stars aligning kind of moment.

Moonie Tyler: 00:06:50

Yeah, it was kind of like she told me about this and said, hey, you happen to be thinking about moving away. What do you think about this? And so I was. I said, well, if you get it, then this will be my, like, stepping stone to the west.

And if you don't, I'll still go, but it'll be way easier and better if we could do it the first way.

So I tried to help as much as I could before she knew she got the project, which was a long, long process, which was, in hindsight, very fun, but in the moment, very stressful. And so once she knew she got it, I kind of like set the date for when we would leave, as when I would have all of my things packed into my car.

And so that's why we drove out, because I got a. I actually didn't have a car at the time. I was.

I've been a bike commuter for five years, and I got a car to drive it out here to put all my stuff in to make a big move.

Emily Herr: 00:07:47

This has been quite the momentous milestone, I think, for both of us in a lot of different ways.

Moonie Tyler: 00:07:53

So you.

Melissa Allison: 00:07:54

You're relocating here?

Moonie Tyler: 00:07:55

I'm not relocating here. One of the things about the road trip was to take a trip. We went down south.

We went Atlanta, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Austin, Marfa, Tucson, Phoenix, Grand Canyon, Zion Park City.

Emily Herr: 00:08:11

Amazing.

Moonie Tyler: 00:08:12

We took a couple of weeks, so it was nice. It felt like a long time, but also definitely Not.

Emily Herr: 00:08:18

But it was city shopping.

Moonie Tyler: 00:08:20

Yeah, we were city shopping, and Tucson seemed like my best option, and it still does, so we'll see. I knew that I probably wouldn't move to Park City. I'm not a winter girl.

I know that everybody loves the snow here, and I am sure it's beautiful, and I will come visit, but I just love the heat. So I'll probably be going back down south when our project ends, and Emily will fly back to Richmond.

Emily Herr: 00:08:45

Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:08:46

Wow.

Moonie Tyler: 00:08:47

I don't know anybody in Tucson, but I know that I like those saguaro cacti, and I like how hot it is, so we'll see how it goes.

Melissa Allison: 00:08:56

That is. I just. I think Tucson is beautiful to drive through in, like, a colorful season, if one exists. Does it exist? I don't know. Well, I. I know that.

I'm guessing that I've only driven through a couple of times, and I'm guessing, like, the mountainside people are probably yelling at us names right now, like, oh, my God, you don't know. But, yeah, I think that, like, dirt and dirt and certain times of the day and evening, sunrise, sunset. That the colors in the mountains.

Emily Herr: 00:09:26

Oh, it's unbelievable.

Moonie Tyler: 00:09:27

Yes.

Melissa Allison: 00:09:28

Come out. And so. And then, of course, the cactus flowers and stuff. There is a really beautiful sleeping. It's like the rocks, though.

Emily Herr: 00:09:37

I mean, like, this is what I didn't expect. I'm not a desert girl. Like, we're opposites in this way. And the color of the earth and the rocks is unbelievable.

Not just, like, bright, the way that the leaves right now in Park City are very bright yellow, but all of this landscape south of here is these subtle, intricate, interesting colors. It's amazing.

Moonie Tyler: 00:10:00

Yeah. And that kind of is a forbidden thing that I'm doing. When I left, almost every single person I knew was like, I couldn't do it. I can't do that.

And I just had this idea that. I mean, I've lived abroad. I've been to other places. I've traveled a lot. I know how to go to other places.

But I just had this idea that these big landscapes would be good for me. So I just came out here, and I was right. They are very good for me. I do love them, and I can see them being a big part of my life.

And it feels crazy to pack up all of your stuff in a car that you just bought and go across the country.

Emily Herr: 00:10:42

And so many people's reactions were just like, you could do this, but I couldn't, or, maybe you can do this, or you can't do this, and I can't. Like, this is a crazy thing to do.

Moonie Tyler: 00:10:52

Not many people said I couldn't, but.

Emily Herr: 00:10:54

They questioned your decisions.

Moonie Tyler: 00:10:56

A couple of people told me that I might be an idiot.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:02

You may be an idiot. I said that you can't.

Emily Herr: 00:11:04

But it's not a great idea.

Moonie Tyler: 00:11:06

If there was no one in my corner, I would have reconsidered because I have. I know a lot of people. I have a lot of people that hold close.

And if they had all said, this is very, very stupid, Mooney, don't do this, I would have reconsidered. But most people were like, that sounds really good. I just can't do it.

And that idea that, like, someone else just because they're not you can do it is very strange. And I had a hard time dealing with it. It almost, like, put a damper on it for me.

Emily Herr: 00:11:31

Like, the implication is that you're. You've got something special or you've got something different or you've got something. Yeah, something different.

Moonie Tyler: 00:11:41

And we do all have different perspectives, but all I'm doing is trying.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:46

Well, I think the thing that you have that they don't at this time, they can choose to have it, is courage, is trusting your gut.

Moonie Tyler: 00:11:53

That's true. Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:54

And, you know, I had Dr. Jacqueline Hyde on my second episode, and she said she used to think, you know, oh, that's nice for other people, but other people do that.

I don't do that, you know, and that's nice for them. And she said, someone said to her, yes, other people do that, and you're people, so therefore, you can do it, too.

Emily Herr: 00:12:14

Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:12:15

And so, yeah, I applaud you. I think that's beautiful. Mirage. I mean, just like, incredibly inspiring. And, you know, how exciting that you get to share this.

You're both just sharing each other's journey. You with this art piece that you're doing for Park City, Emily, and you, Mooney, relocating to a place where you don't know anybody.

I think that's incredible and amazing. And one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you was when I was.

Well, when we were talking out by your mural, you mentioned that, you know, the public, when they're coming to help you, they say, oh, that's great, but you don't want me touching it. And that kind of forbidden with the art. Can you speak a little bit about that? And people's response to, like, oh, I can't touch.

Emily Herr: 00:13:04

The first response we get from everybody.

Moonie Tyler: 00:13:06

Yep, you don't want me. Well, you don't want Me painting, you wouldn't want. That's such a great idea.

Emily Herr: 00:13:11

But I couldn't possibly. Or you don't even want me there. And it's this knee jerk reaction, almost like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not me.

Moonie Tyler: 00:13:21

It's surprising how common it is.

And it is kind of sad, actually, that most people don't have a little bit of faith that they might be able to do something slightly outside of their comfort zone. But that's where our jobs come in to convince them that we do want them and they are important and whatever they make is good.

Emily Herr: 00:13:40

They expect that they're going to need some skills that they don't have, or they expect that we're going to need them to create something beautiful like that this mural is going to depend on their vision and their execution of something, which is a lot of pressure and a lot of stress. And so they're afraid that they're going to do something that will then be permanent and it's not going to look right.

And that's not true for our process, for one thing. But it's also something that we want to get people used to not being afraid of creating something and accepting what they've created, I think.

Melissa Allison: 00:14:20

So what is the metamorphosis you see in people who do finally pick up a brush and start painting?

Moonie Tyler: 00:14:28

Yeah, it's always really fun. It's fun to take people on this journey. And I feel like. So a lot of this mural project is reflective of the community around it.

And that's one of the special things about Emily as a muralist, is that that's important to her and that's what she puts into most of her projects. So bringing people in and making them be a part of it is really fun.

Like, they come in and there's a lot of furrowed brows and we're all looking at a blank wall. And this is hard for anybody that calls themselves an artist. Like looking at a blank wall.

Melissa Allison: 00:15:03

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:15:04

Blank canvas, blank page.

Moonie Tyler: 00:15:05

It's hard.

Emily Herr: 00:15:05

What's the first mark?

Moonie Tyler: 00:15:06

Even when we have many layers on the wall and we have the next session of people.

Emily Herr: 00:15:10

Where do I start?

Moonie Tyler: 00:15:11

Yeah, we're saying pick up a brush, put anything on the wall, and we have some workshop. I mean, some. Some ways to guide them into starting. But even that is like they don't know what to do. And it's fun to see how to figure out a person.

It helps us get to know the community too, to figure person will respond to this project in a positive way, like telling them, oh, you can Start by just picking a color. Just pick a color and just put a little bit on the wall.

Emily Herr: 00:15:42

Or some people, it's easier with words. So we do a little word exercise of like, let's think about all the. Let's brainstorm all the different words associated with town history.

Was one of the walls we just finished. Think about where people have come from to land in Park City. Think about the different industries that brought people here, how you came here.

Think about your family's experience here, all these different things. And so we make this like big word cloud of nouns and verbs and.

Moonie Tyler: 00:16:12

Adjectives which we just write with. Like, Emily leads this. And then myself and sometimes our other assistant Bridget, we just write the words on the wall so everybody can see them.

Emily Herr: 00:16:22

And then they can use those as prompts, as starting points, as like something to grab onto when you're starting to make a mark. Like, okay, well, this big blank wall or this big busy wall is an intimidating place for me to dive into.

But if I have this little anchor of like, well, I'm going to take the words china bridge and represent them somehow. You have a starting point, you have a hook. So it's a lot about finding people's starting points and helping them find those starting points.

And then once people get into it, they are so into it and they have figured out the thing that they're gonna make. They figured out the word that they're gonna paint. They figured out the colors they're gonna mix all together.

This one little girl was making handprints, which was awesome, and she chose different. She didn't just like stick her hand in the paint or to rub it everywhere. She was super intentional.

She had like a different finger in each color and then her palm was in another color.

And she did this a few different times, like very carefully dipping in and out and then going and making her handprint, which inspired some of the other.

Moonie Tyler: 00:17:27

People around to do something a little bit different.

Like, I think that once people see that Emily and I are not judging anything that they're doing and that we love all of their work, no matter what it is, because their work is what is important to the project.

The fact that they are from this town or maybe visiting this town, or maybe part time residents, the fact that they are able to put anything on the wall is the whole point. And it's really hard to get that across.

Emily Herr: 00:17:53

Saying literally whatever you do is the right answer.

Moonie Tyler: 00:17:56

That usually doesn't work for most people.

Emily Herr: 00:17:57

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. It's not what they're Used to hearing. It's never what you hear, honestly. Like, your action, just by. Just the quality of it being you.

Moonie Tyler: 00:18:06

The fact that you exist and you're here means it's all good.

Emily Herr: 00:18:09

Right? That was our goal, is to get you here to make something. It doesn't matter what it is. It's just that it's you making it.

Moonie Tyler: 00:18:14

Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:18:15

We talked about Picasso last time and his quote about, you know, all children are artists. The problem is not losing the artist as adults, and something along those lines. I'm sure I butchered it. But, you know, because he. He has the dis.

The completely anatomically incorrect, hopefully. I mean, I feel bad for anybody who really looks that way, but that was bad. I love everyone. No matter what you look like, even.

Moonie Tyler: 00:18:48

If you're dismembered, we still love you.

Emily Herr: 00:18:50

Even if your ears are on your noses.

Melissa Allison: 00:18:52

Yes. Yes. If you. Oh, my gosh, like, people have horns implanted into their skulls and just crazy stuff, that's fine. So whatever. We love them. Yes, exactly.

So having said that, you talked a little bit about Emily, because you are. I was gonna say classically trained as an artist. Classically trained.

Emily Herr: 00:19:10

More or less. I think that we can refer to classically tr. Artists would have beef with that. But I have gone to art school.

I went to art high school, I went to art college. Formally did art.

Moonie Tyler: 00:19:20

Formal art work.

Melissa Allison: 00:19:22

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:19:22

All of that.

Melissa Allison: 00:19:23

Yes. And so you talked about learning the different rules of art.

Emily Herr: 00:19:30

Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:19:31

And then. And how that's what Picasso did. And do you want to share that?

Moonie Tyler: 00:19:35

Yeah.

Emily Herr: 00:19:35

Yeah.

So the difference there between, like, the assumption that you need to have all these really specific technical skills and techniques down before what you make as an artist is valid is a dangerous thought process. And Picasso's work, like, maybe you know this, maybe you don't.

His very famous work that's very abstract came after a whole bunch of other work that was very realistic and very high craftsmanship skill level of realism.

And I think that's a beautiful point of proof that, like, the skills that you learn in art school or whatever process you go through to learn art skills aren't necessarily what makes the work emotionally valid. It's not what's going to inherently make people respond to it.

And actually, after we did this last time, after our first round conversation, I brought this up again and was talking about how when you're a kid, I've learned all these skills, I've gotten this whole big toolbox of stuff to work with, and people come up to me and say, oh, what you're Doing is amazing. I could never do that. I can't even draw a stick figure, which.

Moonie Tyler: 00:21:01

Please.

Emily Herr: 00:21:01

I can't, I can't, I can't. Yeah, please, please, please. Hey, please never say that to yourself, to me specifically, or anybody else. But it's this.

Like, you don't have those skills because you didn't go to those classes. And that's fine. I don't have a lot of the skills that you have.

But when you pick up a paintbrush or a pencil now, and you expect yourself to be able to draw as if you've been going to art School for 15 years, that's not gonna happen.

You were creating as a child and you were drawing and you're painting and having fun, and then somebody probably told you that it didn't look like a dinosaur, even though you had drawn a really good dinosaur. Or they.

Moonie Tyler: 00:21:48

Or your sister was doing better at that one thing, or you got really.

Emily Herr: 00:21:52

Into soccer or whatever, you stopped drawing or you stopped painting.

And so now when you start again, you're going to be at that same level, like, you're going to have the same set of skills that you started with, and you have to pick up where you left off. And that's not something, certainly not something to be ashamed of. It's also not something to, like, find in yourself to expect to be different.

Moonie Tyler: 00:22:15

The way you explained it to me really resonated. So, like, picture yourself in first grade and first, second, third, doesn't matter. Somebody, like, you're.

You're in science class and somebody is transferred in and their science class has been different, and they're a little bit ahead of you, they know a little bit more, but you can catch up to them, like, it's no big deal. And then you, as you go through school is just the example here.

As you go through school, like, if you're in seventh grade and somebody transfers in that has done AP science classes that has, like, basically gone through most of the science courses in high school and they're being transferred to your school. It starts to be like, oh, I don't know if I can really catch up to them, but maybe if I try really hard, like, I could.

Emily Herr: 00:23:00

There's nobody around you that, like, knows a lot more than you, right?

Moonie Tyler: 00:23:05

And then you get to college and after, and you meet people that, like, they've been doing art or science or history for 12 to 20 some years, and you haven't, because you've gone a different direction, and you can't compare yourselves to them because you can't catch up at that point, you can't catch up with them. I mean, unless you want to. Unless you want to spend 20 or more years learning a new craft, which is perfectly fine.

But you can't compare them to you right away because they just have a different toolbox, their box is different color, a different size, has different things inside of it.

Emily Herr: 00:23:38

Yeah.

Moonie Tyler: 00:23:39

And yours is just as good.

Melissa Allison: 00:23:40

I have to tell you, I relate to that so much because I often refer to myself as an underdog, a late bloomer. I mean, it is. I went back to college three times before I finally finished college, and I was. The first time, I was in my 20s.

The second time I was in my early 40s. And then the last time, when I finally finished, I was in my late 40s.

And the thing was, is because I thought everybody was ahead of me because I'm dyslexic. So I had lots of reasons. And the fact that I'm a journalist, it's like, ridiculous.

Like when professors said, you should write, I'm like, yeah, something is wrong with you totally.

Moonie Tyler: 00:24:22

And.

Melissa Allison: 00:24:23

But I feel like I have an advantage because going back to school, even though with kids your age, you know, and how old are, well, doesn't matter anyway. In their early 20s, you know, 18, 19 in. You guys look like you're 23.

Moonie Tyler: 00:24:39

I'm gonna be 30 soon.

Melissa Allison: 00:24:40

Oh, well, you look like you're 23.

Moonie Tyler: 00:24:42

Doesn't matter.

Melissa Allison: 00:24:42

So. But going to school with all those young kids gave me a perspective that. And an experience that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Initially, it was painful.

It was like, oh, my God, when I'd go into a classroom, first day, they'd think I was the teacher, the professor, and they'd smile at me and be all nice. And then afterward, when they saw that I wasn't, I disappeared. It was like I didn't exist anymore. So that part was painful.

And I wanted to let them know I am not here as your parents friend. I do not think I'm way up here, and you need to respect me.

And, you know, it's like, I'm in this with you, and I think I can learn from you just as much as I hope you can learn from me. And so I, as a result, you know, I don't have the established career that I would have had had I done this in my 20s like everybody else.

But what I do have is I have a peer group that is edgier, that is more on top of things than, you know, sorry, peer group out there. That's my same age.

Emily Herr: 00:25:42

But you have different tools.

Melissa Allison: 00:25:45

Exactly.

And my experience is different, and it's been fun because it was your generation that I remember Eliza was sitting next to me, and we were talking about dating because I'm single, and she's like, you're not on Tinder. You know, and it was like she grabs my phone, puts me on Tinder, and then once a month, the three.

Three friends would come to my home, and we would drink and do shots and make games out of Tinder, and I would tell them about my dates, you know.

Emily Herr: 00:26:18

That's so great.

Melissa Allison: 00:26:19

Yeah.

So it was a wonderful experience that, you know, they helped me to come out of my shell because I had been divorced for seven years before I even started dating. But my experience in my education, amazing as well.

So when you talk about, you know, how you maybe you can catch up, you know, I think we just need to have our blinders on and dive into whatever it is our experience is. Coming back to art, you know, finding.

Emily Herr: 00:26:43

Those tools and figuring out, like, recognizing your experiences as tools is a huge. It's that. It's that kind of, like, trite thing of, like, turning challenges into opportunities. Right.

Like, recognizing things that are different about your life from the lives that you see around you as unique tools that you can use to get ahead, to have, like, more interesting experiences or, like, advance further or more chances at what you're doing or take more shots.

Moonie Tyler: 00:27:12

I meant it both ways.

Emily Herr: 00:27:14

That's what I've found is a great, I don't know, like, strategy technique to use across my life. Okay. I have two examples.

One of them is playing Taboo and is less relevant, but maybe illustrates it better, is if your word to guess is what's something with two meanings is Shots.

Melissa Allison: 00:27:40

Shots.

Emily Herr: 00:27:40

Yes, exactly.

If all the words on the card that you can't say have to do with gunshots or photography, and you start talking about alcohol, you're playing a completely different game. And it's so much easier. You can talk in full sentences, you can say whatever you want. It doesn't matter. And you get it so fast.

My other example is from my own career. My own life is the decision, my own personal decision to pursue mural painting versus becoming an illustrator.

I took all the skills that I had, and I looked at the field of illustration, and I was like, I think that my chances are pretty low here. I think that I could survive in this field if I really wanted to. But it's highly saturated. It's highly competitive.

You don't get paid a lot for a lot of work. But I see this Whole other arena that's, like, kind of empty, from what I can tell.

And I can use all of my same skills over there and play a completely different game, speak in full sentences, get it to happen a lot faster. And that worked. Luckily, it was kind of a gamble, but it was the same mindset of how can you shift your perspective in.

Moonie Tyler: 00:28:53

This case, Murals are not that far off from large scale illustration.

Emily Herr: 00:28:58

Yes. Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:28:59

Well, and the thing that I want to touch on is that you are not classically trained or formally trained as an artist. You are trained to go into education.

Moonie Tyler: 00:29:08

Yeah, I've taken literally no classes about art. But still, every Saturday and sometimes Sundays, people show up here and think that I'm an artist. And I think so, too. I agree with them.

But I have this, like, authority that I guess I've had in other situations, but it's very interesting.

Emily Herr: 00:29:29

Oh, yeah. How does that feel, to have, like, an authority as an artist?

Moonie Tyler: 00:29:32

It feels.

Melissa Allison: 00:29:33

It doesn't.

Moonie Tyler: 00:29:34

I think I've gotten to a place where I don't want it to feel validating if other people think I'm an artist or not. So it's kind of just like, play art time for me, honestly.

Melissa Allison: 00:29:47

But did you feel like an imposter initially?

Moonie Tyler: 00:29:49

Oh, hell yeah. I struggled with that for quite a while.

And so I was living abroad when I first started drawing, and in a jungle in Taiwan where there's no electricity or, like, things to do. But I had a notebook and some pens because it was a great art store in. In the small town nearby.

Melissa Allison: 00:30:16

You've been listening to Loving the F. I'm Alyssa Allison, and I hope you'll join me again next week.