LTF | Fear as a Compass

Melissa Allison: 00:00:05

Welcome to Loving the F. I'm Melissa Allison and this is the podcast that looks at the forbidden and says, are you my appendix? I have a gut feeling I should take you out.

I talk to a new guest each week and examine the female finances, friends, family, fitness, and all the other F words. So join me, especially if it's forbidden. I'm really excited. I have Dr. Jackie Hyde here with me and if you.

You will tell our audience, for those who don't know you. Yeah, all of them, your background.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:00:39

Okay. I have a private practice here in Park City. I've got a doctorate degree in clinical psychology and mother of five.

I've got three older kids and two little kids and just figuring out with my clients as we go.

Melissa Allison: 00:00:56

And what do you specialize in?

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:00:58

Mostly, like mood disorders, depression, anxiety. A lot of relationship stuff comes up. So living life.

I like to take it to a level of depth psychology rather than just clinical, like, I'm the doctor, you're the patient.

I'd rather have it be like, we're figuring this out and drawing on existentialism and depth psychology and energy work and kind of that route less than the clinical route.

Melissa Allison: 00:01:27

Right, yeah.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:01:28

So deep discussions.

Melissa Allison: 00:01:29

Well, I hope we have one now. You were so helpful in helping me to articulate what this podcast was going to be about, what I wanted to get across.

Because, you know, as, you know, I would say, you know, fear is my true north. And I wanted to help people reframe fear, you know, because I feel like it gets a bad. It has a bad rep. And I think fear is like your compass.

It's pointing you in the direction of the thing that you need to do. And as we've discussed, it's not walking into a burning building.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:02:03

Right. There's that healthy instinct, fear of. Don't do that. Fear. Fear is just trying to help you survive and be your best self.

Melissa Allison: 00:02:11

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:02:12

Can go either direction.

Melissa Allison: 00:02:13

Right. And so we were looking up words and we came up with awe.

You can be awestruck at the sight of a burning building or at the sight of something beautiful and amazing.

And so what do you think of this concept that I am working on creating and doing this podcast around in terms of, you know, the thing that people think, oh, I could never do that. Oh, I wish. But that's not me. Or stuff like that. The thing that stops them being like, they're so calling to them.

And I know that's a little woo woo, but a calling of sorts for them to like, you know, it's the thing that they need to Be the person that they want. I mean, in order to reach the higher self of who they are. So what do you think about all that?

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:03:04

That reminds me, like, when I was growing up, I always thought that's what other people do. Simple, little stupid things. But I just think, well, that's what other people do. I don't do that.

Even eating a certain candy bar like, other people like that. I don't do that. Or being a scientist going to the moon, other people do that. I don't do that. And then someone told me once and it stuck with me.

People do it, and I'm people, therefore I can do it. And I was probably about 30 years old when I heard that. And it really opened up my spectrum of, oh, I can do that. I'm people.

People do that, therefore I can do that. So, you know, not having that barrier of, like, this is what I do and other people do that was a huge awakening for me.

But then taking it further, I feel like everyone does have their big leap in life, like their thing. And some people take that leap. And you know what it is when you see it. And some people are like, yeah, I do that. And people. I can do that.

And other people will hold back in fear thinking, oh, no, no, that's what other people do. So, yeah, that was an awakening for me, though. Just that simple phrase. I think it all the time now.

Melissa Allison: 00:04:20

You're people.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:04:21

Yes, people do it. And I'm.

Melissa Allison: 00:04:24

You're not a dolphin.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:04:26

I'm people, therefore I can do it.

Melissa Allison: 00:04:28

Right?

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:04:29

So why not try?

Melissa Allison: 00:04:31

Well, and how has that transformed your life since doing that? What have you ventured out and done?

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:04:37

Well, I mean, getting a doctorate degree simply, you know, like when I was young.

Melissa Allison: 00:04:42

How old were you when you went to get your doctorate?

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:04:45

I must have been 40. I must have been. I'm 48 next week.

So, yeah, I think I got it about age 40, because when I was younger, I just thought, well, that's what other people do. And isn't that brilliant? But that's what other people do. And then hearing this, I thought, okay, well, I can do that.

You just take it one little piece at a time. You don't think, well, I'm gonna set out and I'm gonna accomplish that overnight. But I just broke it down. I want to get a bachelor's degree.

Okay, I got that. Well, I'm bored now. What should I do? Get a master's degree. Okay, then. Well, I can get a doctorate degree. Yeah, people do that. And I'm people.

But it's not Something that I would like. If you'd known me 20, you would not have thought, right?

Melissa Allison: 00:05:28

You know, and I think, I think there's like, well, that's good for them because you have no interest in it. It doesn't cause an uprising in you. Like, for me, I have a calling for a master's degree, not a doctorate.

There's a part of me that is like, you will go back to school and you'll get a master's or, you know, to be a deep sea diver. You know, that's not calling to me. It's a fear, though.

And I think, you know, if I get opportunity to go deep sea diving, I would like to do that just to face my fear. But it's like, that's not what I want to build my career around. So I think there's that different type of thing.

But then there's the thing that, like you said, it's like there are things that call to you that it's like there's.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:06:14

Yeah, there's a difference of. Sometimes you've got the end goal in mind. Like, wouldn't it be lovely to have a doctorate degree? But sometimes it comes upon you.

Like, we were in Mexico and my husband was jumping in with the whale sharks. And there's no way I don't do that. That's what other people do. I have no desire. That's not on my bucket list. You go for that.

And I sat there in the little boat and he jumped in and he swam with the whale shark. You know those giant whale sharks with the big old mouths. They don't eat meat, but they're still enormous. And he kept jumping.

He jumped in three times. He didn't die. He didn't die. He didn't die again. And I just decided on that spot, I'm just going to jump in.

And it was amazing to be in the water with that beautiful, enormous creature, so graceful, swimming next to me. But it changed. It was, it was life changing. It was so, after all, it was just so the energy of that. But I didn't set out wanting to do that.

But you've got to seize the moment sometimes, right?

Melissa Allison: 00:07:17

So how, how can, like if somebody stuck in a ride, if somebody is, and they don't even realize it, like, whether it's. You're wearing the same hair that you've worn in high school or, or at a job or in a relationship, like, how do people need to.

What are the steps to move beyond it? And how do you identify it so that you can, you know, my dad.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:07:43

Always said, stuck with me. One of those things, wisdom things. He always said, do something even if it's wrong. And I really like that because you're.

At least you're doing something. I mean, we get to the point of talking and talking and talking and planning and planning.

Eventually, though, it's like you got to do something even if it's wrong. And if it's wrong, you figure it out from there. But at least it's progress, right?

Melissa Allison: 00:08:08

So, yeah, that's why I like it fresh. Just kind of jumping in with both feet. I often think of myself as an underdog, you know, because it's not. Takeoff is not always pretty. Yeah.

It's like, it can look a little funky sometimes, but I always land on my feet. I always land on top, and I'm always so glad that I did it.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:08:30

You know, I think that's a good point. You will land on your feet. Like, you have the basic skill set. Don't. Don't jump into the deep end without, you know, skills or tools.

Like, be smart about it, but within that reason, I mean, I've heard it said, like, count to three, and then, you know, like, don't sit there and overthink it and overthink it. What is it, the five second?

Melissa Allison: 00:08:55

Yeah, right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:08:56

The five second.

Melissa Allison: 00:08:57

Mel Robbins.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:08:58

Right? Yeah. Just, you know, in your gut, in five seconds. Do I have the tools to handle this or not? And if you do, go for it.

Melissa Allison: 00:09:06

Right. So this is about redefining the forbidden. What don't people understand about the forbidden?

I feel like there's a little bit of folklore and urban myths and just all that other stuff wrapped up in the forbidden and that it's different for each person. Do you say that's fair?

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:09:23

Yeah, I think there's kind of an overlaying, like, cultural norm, but everyone has their own journey within that and to know your own compass and your own truth. And is it forbidden for a reason? Is there logic in that? I mean, don't go rolling around in poison ivy. That's not. That's probably forbidden, right?

Melissa Allison: 00:09:47

It should be. It should be.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:09:49

But we don't even need to call that forbidden because it's so obvious.

Melissa Allison: 00:09:52

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:09:53

So I guess the word forbidden is more like things you might want to do, but you can't or you shouldn't.

Melissa Allison: 00:10:00

The guilty pleasure.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:10:01

The guilty pleasure. Right. Because poison ivy is not forbidden.

Melissa Allison: 00:10:04

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:10:10

So, yeah. Why is it forbidden? Are these, you know, sexism or, you know, cultural norms or religious taboos that are archaic or.

Melissa Allison: 00:10:21

Yeah, yeah. Figuring out, you know, this is A little bit harsh, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

Last night I was at a networking event and this woman shared that her daughter's high school have new dress code. And the staff put on like a little skit to demonstrate the dress code. Well, one of the men, a teacher, had balloons under his shirt.

He was like, supposed to be a girl.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:10:50

You're kidding.

Melissa Allison: 00:10:51

No. And to make matters worse, another man on stage took a needle and playfully poked at the boobs and popped them.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:10:59

You're kidding me.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:00

No.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:11:00

In high school.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:01

In high school, staff. Well, I heard of it yesterday. Yeah, currently. And I'm like, what? Wait?

And I thought, I want to get a long balloon and stuff it in my pants and do a skit for all these men and have somebody poke it and see how receptive they are and how much, you know, how funny they think. So that's a little bit of what you mentioned. You know, if it's.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:11:25

Yeah, it's like, you know, you heard about the US Open, and was it Serena Williams took off. No, it was one of the tennis players took off her shirt. She had a sports bra. Sports bra underneath her shirt.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:37

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:11:37

And she took off a T shirt, put on another shirt, and it was all over the news.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:41

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:11:41

It was just the scandal.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:43

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:11:44

The guys can do that every single day. But it's forbidden for the woman to take off her shirt with the sports bra on.

Melissa Allison: 00:11:50

But if they were at a pool, they'd probably think, what a modest bathing suit. Exactly.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:11:56

So why is that forbidden?

Melissa Allison: 00:11:58

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:11:58

But males don't have the same forbidden. Yeah, like, that's the stuff you want to push through.

Melissa Allison: 00:12:04

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:12:04

Good for her.

Melissa Allison: 00:12:05

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:12:06

So I guess it's assessing. Is there a higher good in pushing through this forbidden or is this rolling in poison ivy, having that five second visceral knowledge? But it's.

Melissa Allison: 00:12:21

Well, she also says if you wait longer than five seconds, you'll. You'll start talking yourself out of it. Like, you have to take action in that first five seconds. And I feel like that's where your gut comes in.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:12:34

Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:12:34

You know, would you agree with that?

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:12:36

I totally agree with that. I mean, we think that we're rational beings and our pros and cons list add up and then we make this rational decision. We don't. We.

We are very emotionally based beings and we go ahead and do what we're going to do based on our emotions. So trust yourself. Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:12:56

I think that's the biggest lesson that I've learned as a grown woman now is it's like I'm 53. And my birthday's next week, too. Yes, we do. You too. So, shoot, what was I gonna say about.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:13:20

What was I gonna say?

Melissa Allison: 00:13:22

Oh, yes. All grown up. It. It takes 50 years to become a grown woman, I think. Yes. So you're still a little girl. You're not there yet.

Because I feel like it took that long for me to realize my gut is. Serves me. I need to listen to my gut. Not your gut, not somebody else's gut. I need to listen to mine and act on that. And, you know, I.

I wish, like, if my kids, anybody that I could, like, pass it on to, it's like, trust that gut.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:13:51

Trust it. Exactly. Yeah.

Melissa Allison: 00:13:53

And. And if it's something compelling that, you know, don't run into the burning building unless you're a fireman saving someone and then do that.

Yes, I, I, you know, but.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:14:06

Yeah, you could even develop that, too, into the forbidden fruit. Right. But according to the myth there, if Eve had never taken that forbidden fruit, we never would have knowledge or progress.

Melissa Allison: 00:14:19

Exactly. The forbidden fruit was knowledge. And why is knowledge bad for us?

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:14:24

Yeah, exactly. And why is it. I mean, in that sense, forbidden kind of sounds like, ooh, don't do that.

Because that might be hard and scary and dangerous, but if you do do it, then you'll be better off on the other end of it.

Melissa Allison: 00:14:36

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:14:36

That's another way to redefine.

Melissa Allison: 00:14:39

So it's how you. Yeah, it's all about how you frame it.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:14:42

Is it forbidden according to someone else's point of view, or is it forbidden in your own internal compass?

Melissa Allison: 00:14:48

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:14:48

So if it's someone else's and you feel compelled, it will launch you to a higher space of being. Then do it.

Melissa Allison: 00:14:57

So I have to ask you a question.

This is going to be my question that I ask all my guests, of course, what have you formally, and you've already shared one, so it has to be different, Elite. It has to be different. But what did you used to consider forbidden that you now enjoy?

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:15:14

Oh, that's a really good question. I mean, one thing, when I was. My first husband was Mormon, so it was forbidden to drink wine. I know you laugh at that, right?

Melissa Allison: 00:15:28

No, I know because I used to be Mormon. I enjoy a nice glass of wine.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:15:33

Now, and it's healthy and it's good for you. And I absolutely enjoy a fine glass of wine.

Melissa Allison: 00:15:38

It was definitely. I used to have nightmares about, like, being caught drinking or smoking a cigarette.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:15:46

Someone else's definition of forbidden.

Melissa Allison: 00:15:48

Yes. And not your own, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:15:51

Just enjoying life that's, like, actually good for your heart and it's really good for your mind to drink coffee. It actually stimulates and prevents Alzheimer's and all of that. So.

Melissa Allison: 00:16:01

Right.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:16:02

Just off the top of my head.

Melissa Allison: 00:16:05

So enjoy. You know, there's this great quote Mary Krista Smith in Park City gave me. Well, it's her thing.

She's like, coffee for the things I can control and wine for the things I can't.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:16:19

I love that. It's so healthy.

Melissa Allison: 00:16:21

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:16:22

So, I mean, that's someone else's definition of forbidden. Like, wait, no. I get to carve out my own definition here. Yeah, I get to enjoy that. Enjoy life.

Melissa Allison: 00:16:33

Right. So thank you so much.

Dr "Jackie" Jacqueline Hyde: 00:16:36

I really appreciate it.

Melissa Allison: 00:16:38

Will you come back and do this again? Thank you. You've been listening to Loving the F. I'm Alyssa Allison, and I hope you'll join me again next week.